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Safe Learning vs Not Safe Learning Discussion
Continued from a locked thread. The thread had taken an interesting turn into about learning as a child. Safe learning basically means that a child will not learn about violence and sex (and other things typically considered to have an adult nature) properly until you are an adult. Not Safe Learning means that the child is exposed to such things early. Which is better? And why is it better? These are very good questions. Like Tensa I was basically a self-taught child. I even had my first exposure to porn earlier than him, I was 8 when I picked up my first playboy (wow, 21 years ago...how the time flies). In fact, my grandfather who was there just laughed and let me look at it. So I learned about sex and safe sex early. In fact, it was when I was a kid that America switch to the Abstinence learning route. I had some safe sex classes before that though. So I had a fairly good knowledge base about sex and how to have safe sex and what not from an early age.

In fact, going off of that, Teen Pregnancy in America went up after the Abstinence learning route was adopted...so much for safe learning eh? In my opinion and its the same for many others out there. Due to the lack of education on safe sex, teens have sex without thinking and thus get pregnant. After all, its a given that most American teens are going to have sex in their teens. The rate is rather disturbing actually. But, the amount of pregnancies that could have been avoided through safe sex teaching? We will never know really if teaching safe sex would have helped or not. But I think it would have. After all, when I was 18 and had sex for the first time...I think I put on a condom...can't remember, was drunk at the time...but, the girl did not get pregnant. As far as I know anyways...

Same goes for violence. Blocking children from violence, in my opinion, is stupid. Child act out what they see, true, but, through action children learn. At one time people tried to claim that violent video games and movies and cartoons made children violent. I do not remember what studies showed, but I think the studies showed this to be largely false. I've played violent video games since I was 5, and I have never been a violent person. Well, not really, self defense, maybe, but never offensive. At the same time, the violent video games taught me tactical thinking. Which with its use, I am able to....um...sorry...but thats top secret info, moving on...

But regardless of the source of learning, ultimately its up to the guidance of the parents. Parents need to guide their children properly. But at the same time, the parents need to figure out the exact method to use for each child, for all methods will not always work with certain children. In my opinion, exposing your child to the "dangers" of the world and teaching them about them, allow them to grow up as more mature people. My friend in rl was the type that was safe raised...and he..well...is not very mature and is even scared to move out of his parents house...and hes 26...hes going to be the 40 year old virgin...except...no job...
Ha beat both of you, first porn video was at 7! And I'm proud of it, but like many other I grow up with the internet, with all the sex and violence that comes with it.

For the sex, I'm 18 and still a virgin (not that I'm proud of it), and have no problems for waiting, I'd take Skyrim over a girl because you end up regretting it and if she gets pregnant and what not. Tho even tho I grow up in Christian schools, as I hit the upper grades we did have "Off the Books" sex classes, because some of the teachers felt the same way, and that where I learned a lot about the other side of sex the online video's didn't show, and looked how I turned out. If they would bring back those classes and drop their balls back down like in the 90's and before things would be much better.

As for the violence, yes games do in fact encourage kids do be violent however its not the games thenselves but just plain old bed parenting, I've played some of the worse and most violent games out there but I didn't turn out bad, that because my parent tought me the difference between real and fake, also that and if I messed around in school they'ed beat my ass, which brings up another point.

Why are parents so scared to beat their kids? I mean in the schools kids can hit the teacher but if the teacher fights back they can get in trouble? All they can do is hit the panic button on the all. Kids are give to much freedom in the school if they'ed bring back the school spankings things would be much better. But anyways its not so much the games and movies or cartoons (while they do play a factor) its the parenting.

I would have so problem with my children watching light porn (none of the hardcore stuff) or playing some of the more violent video game like Man hunt or GTA San Andreas aslong as they can keep a clear head between real and fake.
Haha Cuda =).
I can't remember exactly, I did not have access to a playboy, or anything when I was around 10. And I was wise enough not to let my pc get smacked with viruses at that time. So I always avoided porn sites. It was not untill I got a new pc, and the access to newsgroups that I strolled across some stuff.. Most of the stuff rather disgusted me, I did not want to see any cock on my screen, BAH. After some time I caught something called FTV which wasn't all that bad.. And it was the only thing which I ever bother to look at in sorrowful times =P.
I've been clean for almost 8 months now though, and I am proud of it.

Sex ed down in the Netherlands is good. We get told about stuff in our first year in high school, and are usually even thought how to use a condom. (My class skipped this however). Other things which control pregnancy also got said. As for me, my first time was when I turned ~17, which I still am btw =), about 5 months ago now. But things are soo awkward the first time, that it will take some practice to get it right ;).
Parents down here told me enough, and are open if I needed 2 know anything. They actually bought me a pack of condoms after some time, but I secretly already bought a pack myself.

About the violence. Kids who turn into maniacs by Video games are... insane. These games soul purpose are entertainment, and not something to be used on the streets. I can understand that people want violent games banned, but I doubt those things actually work. Kids these day;s will always find a way 'round it. Be it legal, or illegal. It's just how stuff works. Actually earlier today while leaving work it amazed me again, that a friend of mine went with this other guy to exchange Cannabis and Hashish, and some it together. While he's been doing this for a long time already, I still don't get the kick in it.
Like Cuda said. Aslong as they can keep a clear head between real and fake.
I clicked on a porn ad by accident when I was a kid once. Turned me off from breasts forever...(-_-)
I say Pettan Pettan Tsurupettan all the way for me.
I think I've been kind of a "rambo" kid until I was 6 or 7, can't remember exactly. I was messing big time with my dad and destroyed stuff and shit. My dad then grabbed me somewhere on my sweater and lifted me up at the wall to tell me that I have to stop that shit. He didn't hurt me or anything, but I can clearly remember that moment even now.

I think this one time probably had a large impact on who I am today. I never even once got into a fight anymore after that, for instance.

The one thing I have to object to is that violent games make teens violent: many studies on this came to the conclusion that this is not the case, however I do agree that extremely violent games should only be played by children of at least 12 years of age.

The main reasons teens become violent is when their parents neglect them or other social reasons, such as the "you have to become smart or you are a little shit to us"-attitute of parents. A great many of the so-called "schoolschooters" were working towards a good qualification. In germany, as far as I know, all the people who went on shooting frenzies in schools were in schools where you can get your university entry qualification (gymnasium).

As always, parents have to watch out for any weird behavior and limit the time their children play such games. I remember getting nightmares about a shooter I played on N64 when I was 12. Then again, I also got nightmares about Chubaka from Star Wars lol
Don't remember when I watched porn for first time but I think it was around 6 or 7 years old. By accident at first if I remember corretly, which means I didn't know it was porn at that time (damn you google image xD)

Though the sex ed starts for first time when some people hits the puberty which means when you are around 11 or 12 years old while last year of primary school and first year of high school more. This time was more talk about relationships, STD:s, LGBT (much talk about this actually), protection etc.

Our country takes sex ed pretty serious. That's how I see it anyway. Also it happens depending on the teacher they could show us light porno (and this is not a joke)

For violence I think it's more self-control and how you have been raised. And pretty much as Cuda and Art already have said.
Oyeah..
I remember, about 1 year ago:
I was at my grannies place with the rest of the family, the children were sitting / watching the pc, while one of my younger cousins was doing some stuff. He's around 12 now. Anyway he was acting like the hyper active kid as he's always been, and doing stupid webgames on the internet. After some time we got rather annoyed and I said the following: 'Go to freeporn.com', he had no clue what it would be and ran to his dad saying: 'Dad what is freeporn.com', his dad shocking, gave us a yell, and got angry, we really did LOL. So some parents certainly keep their kids away from it.
Kumacuda said:

Why are parents so scared to beat their kids? I mean in the schools kids can hit the teacher but if the teacher fights back they can get in trouble? All they can do is hit the panic button on the all. Kids are give to much freedom in the school if they'ed bring back the school spankings things would be much better. But anyways its not so much the games and movies or cartoons (while they do play a factor) its the parenting.
When parents beat kids it teaches the children to fear the parents, not the difference between wrong and right. A good parent could teach their children right from wrong without inflicting pain on them.

As for kids in school, it's definitely true that teachers need a LOT more freedom to reprimand children that never learned respect

And, as everyone else said, violent video games only affect people who can't tell right from wrong or real from virtual, and they're generally mentally unstable anyway.
Monta said:
And, as everyone else said, violent video games only affect people who can't tell right from wrong or real from virtual, and they're generally mentally unstable anyway.
Really? Well I always view reality as our anime fantasy.
Quote from one of my older comments from Shuu:
"For me, fantasy is reality. Reality is nothing. And nothing is something. For something can be anything. And anything can be fantasy."
Actually, in America the reason why is because kids recently just got it in their heads that being spanked by their parents can land their parents in jail. Thus, with a sudden uprising of child abuse cases because the parents spanked and/or punished the child going up, parents and teachers have become scared to punish the children properly. Its has nothing to do with fear of the parents really. And Tensa...that is kinda funny lol. But not really helping the case...
Tensa said:
Really? Well I always view reality as our anime fantasy.
And since you realize that, you can tell both apart.
@forgerofsouls

That reminds me of a video on Tru TV, (forget which show, I think it was top 20) but anyways, it was about a kid who stole his moms car drove it 3 miles away, and wrecked into 3 other cars, he was only 8 or 9, when the new asked why he did. he said he did it because he was bored. The mom later later that if she wouldn't go to jail for hitting her kid she'd beat him.

I was like what the fuck, beat the kid thats the only way he'll learn, parents are so scared nowadays, if he was my kid, I'd beat him, then make him work to pay off the damages.
That's because gov'ts and organizations are more overprotective of kids for whatever stupid reasons they have. They take the power away from the parents, let leave the parent straddle with all the liability (note I didn't say "responsibility"). It's a rock and a hard place for parents in that situation.

Not enough "discipline" and the child never learn. Too much "discipline" and the parent(s) get hammered instead.

Some dumbasses for whatever reason believe it's a gov't responsility to damn raise a child. Many are lazy-fuck parents who should've never been allowed to reproduce to ebgin with. Is it THAT hard to say, NO!" to your child or fucking CHECK THE AGE RATING ON THE BACK OF A GAME BOX IN THE STORE before buying and later bitching it's a violent game your child shouldn't be playing?

You got these stupid ass parents who would rather lay the responsibility and liability of guiding/restricting their child(ren) to the gov't.

ARGH! Just thinking about this issue is pissing me off right now. Fucking California and (not to make light of the current situation in JPN) the damned Tokyo Anime/Manga and Game ban.

Parents should both be allowed and forced to raise their child as they see fit. Only once they fuck up or actual signs of trouble showing should the Gov't and organizations step in to intervene. Preventative measures can only go so far before they become opressive and/or (for some) an excuse to be lax in rearing their child(ren).
Agreed. Taking power away from the parents screws the child over. Thankfully, in Oregon, the age one is held responsible for their actions as an adult is 11 on up...unless they changed it...not sure...So, a teen that does something stupid is held responsible, while the parents are not. Still though, they need to give parents back the power to punish their kids as is needed. I was spanked when I was young, I learned my lessons. Than I figured everything else out as I grew up.
I remember when I met one of my nephews again after he had grown up a bit. I think he was like 8-9 at the time.

He was a little spoil brat (this I can actually blame on my sister's upbringing of him) who didn't know respect and when to listen and stop doing shit when someone told him to.

I wanted to beat the bloody fuck out the little bastard but I had to hold back:

  • 1) Wasn't my kid.
  • 2) The parents couldn't be trusted to take it simply as reactive disciplinary action on my part.
  • 3) I was in the Navy then and couldn't afford something as retarded as a domestic violence issue while I was on leave in the US from JPN.
If he was my kid or I knew the parent wouldn't mind, I'd at least slap the shit out of him. However, considering the circumstances, I had to restrain myself and play it safe. It's not like I have to live with or deal with the little asshole everyday. Plus I did give a shit about my career then.

It sucks when you realize you can very well risk and fuck up your own life in the name of trying to raise your child(ren) so they're not some ass or bum once they grow.

The really shitty part? It's the parents that DO give a damn about their children that get fucked with the Child "abuse" laws that basicially outlaw any "extreme" actions taken in the attempt to discipline a child.
And they wonder why kids in the school are so violent, because they can be, who going to stop them? The police? It's takes atleast 30 minutes for them to respond from when the panic button is hit, maybe longer depending on where the school is and how far a officer is. They really need to bring back inschool spanking. When I fucked around in school (back when spankings really did scare me) my dad was called, and he'd take me to the back of the school.....I didn't come back to class with a smile of my face....I didn't do that same thing again. ^_^
I played a lot of different games when I was a kid. More or less violent. I don't think they affected me much although my dad and mom banned the violent games from me at one point and became really strict with the ratings... I haven't been allowed to play anything over my age after that (not that it would have stopped me). At a same time my dad stopped spanking me for doing bad stuff (mainly because mom and dad got divorced). Now that I think about it it might have happened around the same time beating kids started to become illegal and shit. What I think, though, is that exactly because of that I became rather... wild for the 3rd-5th grade. A lot of people still remember how I used to throw chairs, tables and notebooks along with other school stuff at teachers back then :D
I don't know how exactly I was tamed in the end so nowadays it takes quite darn lot from someone to get me hit him... Now my bro is similar as I was back then, which does annoy the crap outta me >:S
They shouldn't have made beating own kids illegal. It's probably the reason why kids have become so violent just like cuda said :/

Damn you law!
I think we should define the "beating". Some people might take this for child abuse, and that is not to discipline children from what's right and wrong. Though to hit children is not the only way to desiple them. I don't remember I actually got hit by my parents but rather more I got locked in my own room for like a hour or two better word would be curfew. Anyway this was to reflect the bad stuff I did.

Anyhow trying to say there is other ways to disciple children since hitting is not always going to work.
Getting whipped along the ass with a belt or paddle or hand (btw why do parents always say its hurt them then it hurts you, that shit hurts like a bitch, all they do is swing) is not abuse, nor is locking them in their room for a few hour (tho I consider taking my computers away as abuse >.<) or time out. Throwing them into a wall and punching the shit out of them, or not letting eat dinner, or extreme punishment can be abuse.
I had to kneel above dried corncobs once, because I've done some seriously bad shit, I never done something like that again...
Well, I do think my mom exagerated on that punishment, but I don't remember being hit since that time, I done errors after that, obviously, but none that was stoppable or that I had conscious it would have no reward in the end, so I think that beating realy was good for me.
With this, I am up for the back of the school beating here in Brasil as well.
I never really was beat. I got spanked a couple times, but that was about it. I also got sent to my room to "reflect", but I mostly just slept. I used to be a very wild kid, had to take medicine to calm me done some till about 7th grade. I often took things that i did too far, so i decided to mellow myself done a lot. I still let loose a little when I'm just with friends, but other than that I'm the quiet unnoticed guy. I'm also slightly pacifist. I also would like to get into a situation where I have to fight to my full. EX. someone breaks into the house while I'm their alone, so I either sneak to where my dad keeps the guns, or I make a dash past the intruders with one of my swords (I keep one with me at all times, just for fun) and wound them, then make it to the guns to frighten them while I call the cops. for some reason, usually when I'm alone, I have scenarios like this run through my head

My sisters disrespect
Actually Cuda, the belt or paddle can be seen as abuse because both can leave actual marks and even cause open wounds, so I do not agree with you on that point, but, open hand spanking...I do not see as punishment. Of course, such punishment has to be kept in moderation, to much and it is abuse. And before you say otherwise about paddle or belt...I know from first hand experience of having my ass torn open from a belt because it hit with the buckle. And if you do not believe me, its no different than whipping people. Ever seen what happens to a person from a whip? If you have, try to tell me that ain't excessive. If your are going to use a paddle, do not be to hard, and only use a few hits. To many and it causes lasting wounds (typically in the form of blisters). Open hand spankings sting for a few hours, and leave only a bruise if done to hard. But rarely do they leave anything more. So, paddles and belts can be easily seen as abuse. And spankings via open hand can only be seen as abuse if done excessively. But...with how things are done...such things are abuse all the time!
While I never had a belt used on me, it was either open hand, and one time a ping-pong paddle, just belt have been used for years, when my dad got in trouble he had to go out a find a think stick to be used on him, I think that was worse then the real spanking, but anyways if done right yes it'll leave marks, anything you do will leave marks, but it'll work so you won't mess around again, but people started to go to far I guess.
Cuda,

"Ha beat both of you, first porn video was at 7! And I'm proud of it, but like many other I grow up with the internet, with all the sex and violence that comes with it. " I find that to be a childish.

Now with this whole discussion, learning and not learning about safe sex doesn't really make a difference. I know many people who have been taught about safe sex, and what not . But they still choose to go the other way[to have unsafe sex]. Its really the child's own decision whether they want to have safe sex or not. I mean anyone can teach their child it and think they'll follow what they say. But in reality some actually don't. Now if they have sex without condoms and the girl gets pregnant well its their own fault. they chose to go that way.. Ive been taught about safe sex...hell my parents still talk to me about it..they think i know little crap about it but i know more then they think i know. But i actually don't care if the guy uses a condom with me.... I'll only care until im 18. Then i wont give two fcks if they use a condom with me i choose to have sex with them. To me a better way to just stay out of having sex all the way is to just stick to sexting and looking at porn. I have a sibling younger than me, and im planning on teaching him about sex, and looking at porn and whatnot. id rather him hear it from me instead of our parents trying to teach him..besides it too awakard if the parents give the sex talk >.<

With the violence in video games. I actually don't find that to be harmful at all. I mean i used to play games that were very violent. but as Cuda says he knows the difference between whats real and fake. and i know the difference as well. I actually find games to be quite stupid especially the violent ones but i guess it keeps children out of being bored. If children dont know the difference between real and fake then they shouldnt be playing those violent games [in my opinion]. However i could be wrong.

Now with parents teaching right from wrong. I think that spanking is wrong. Hell i was spanked when i was kid...and i was spanked just for the hell of it. Now that i live with a different family If i did anything wrong i just got punished. i didnt get any physical abuse.

@forgerofsouls:

i completely agree with you about parents using belts to whip their children. it does leave marks as well as paddles. ive only been whipped with a belt hell does that hurt like a MF.

@Cuda
If you did that to our kids id divorce you. I dont believe in spanking my children, or physical punishment contact. I'd find a different way to punish them. (Btw. I know Cuda IRL.)
Spanking? Heck! The worst thing for me is to get ultra bored! How? Taking away my internet! D:< (and/or electricity)

Also, sex and stuff of the sort is uber natural no matter of your age. Heck! I had my penis put inside a girls vagina when I was 6 or 8 (can't remember if I started school or not at the time). But we didn't know how to do it and it ended up as just that. Next time it was in her room, but my cousin found us XD (I don't have male cousins... also... my entire street is filled with girls!). Third time was with my cousin when I was 9 ... refused her invitation 'cause I was scared (/dishonour D:)
And my real first time was at 15. Not safe.

Violance is necesary when you know that your kid can only learn with that. It's called tough love.
Tensa,

I know its natural for people my age. hell my friends do it all the time. And wow . Violence doesnt have to be necesary, sometimes using different methods of punishments to teach your kid from whats right and wrong will do the trick..if not ill usually just send my kid to juvie.
It's not really punishment. Tough love is one way you guide your kid/s.
Hehe the stuff that you happen to do while you're a kid... and without you even realizing.

I remember when I was about 8 I knew a girl I used to play around town with (lost contact to her later on). I can't remember how the discussion went, but it ended with her saying "Oh, I don't have anything else but nipples" *takes shirt off*

Geez I just recently realized that technically because of that I probably beat all my other friends by getting to see "boobs" the earliest >:D
I'm unsocial, so i doubt I'll find someone I'm willing to have sex with for a while. Plus I'm too shy to ask a girl out (trying to fix that).
I used to play some of the older, extremely violent games, but not so much anymore. Most games today aren't too violent at all, and most of the ones with the Mature rating is rated because of the multiplayer. the game itself isn't too violent, but most of the other players are. I was owning everyone on one of those "noob servers" in HL2DM when i was 7, and some older guy decided to get on and try to get as many of us as he could to go to a porn site, and most of the people their where under 10, so we had no idea what it was and checked it out. That was my first porn experience. some people can be such dicks on those games. Glad I didn't turn out that way.
About sex ed, in my country we have none(macedonia) but still i turned out fine, relatively. i have sex, not much tho... :( :( :(. But actually the best advice i got for sex was, and i quote my father when he beat the crap out of me when he caught me with a girl at 14 - "If you are not a man to raise a kid, don't make one." got me safe till now, 19 years old :)

About kid education all i got until 14 were just slaps and i turned out just fine, i havent bullied any1 till now, im not a spoiled brat or anything never was. I have played a lot of violent games, and watched almost every gory, psichotic killer, nudity film worth watching and im proud to say i havent commited massive murder till now. :)
I have my own motivation for safe sex.

That doesn't mean I didn't have sex at all though.

I came up with my own ways to practice it safely.

In conclusion on sex.

I don't know much about the discipline though.

I never really had to experience it, but I support it.

Fixed and super condensed for Stahn.